Commuters will have to accept overcrowding on trains despite growing anger on some lines, the rail minister said yesterday. Tom Harris said it was "not realistic" for everyone to expect a seat on peaktime journeys.

Passengers' frustration was increased after it was revealed that Britain's top rail civil servant had said that people paying £5,000 for a season ticket should tolerate standing for 30-minute journeys. Mike Mitchell, director general of rail at the Department for Transport, told MPs this month: "If you are travelling a relatively short distance, I do not think that it is unacceptable to expect to stand in the peak."

Mr Harris said there was no short-term solution to overcrowding, with packed trains a fact of life across Europe: "I would much rather have the situation where we have the capacity for every passenger to get a seat but that would not be realistic in the short-term.

"In every major European city it is accepted that there will have to be standing on trains because of population growth and higher demand. You cannot pour a pint of water into a half pint." He acknowledged that overcrowding had replaced punctuality as the biggest bugbear of commuters.

Only 41% of passengers believe they get good value for money from their train journeys amid rising ticket prices, because of scarce capacity on services in the commuter heartlands of London and the south-east. But most commuters are willing to accept crowded conditions if their train is on time and does not break down, he added.

Mr Harris said passengers should, if possible, get trains at less crowded times, which franchise owners are trying to encourage by offering cheaper tickets. "But we accept that for the majority of people they do not have a choice of when they travel, so until we get the new rolling stock on the lines people affected by this will have to be patient."

Mr Mitchell's comments were condemned by the TSSA union. Gerry Doherty, general secretary, said the civil servant was "arrogant and out of touch".

The rail traveller watchdog, Passenger Focus, said Mr Harris's warning on overcrowding was "fair comment" but a 30% increase in passengers over the next decade would make conditions worse.

Mr Harris was speaking at the launch of a larger train carriage by First Great Western, the franchise that faces a passenger revolt over crowded conditions on its services in Somerset and Wiltshire. A pressure group formed by passengers has called a farepayers' strike on Monday in protest at a trains shortage that has slashed the number of carriages available for services from Bath and Salisbury.

See also:

Commuters shouldn't expect a seat for £5,000 a year, says rail chief

ThisisLondon: 18.01.07

Overcrowding is getting worse even though fares are increasing, say the Tories

Britain's rail chief believes it is 'acceptable' for train passengers paying up to £5,000 a year for season tickets to stand for half an hour of their journey.

Dr Mike Mitchell was described as 'arrogant and out of touch' yesterday as passengers and unions reacted with anger to his remarks.

They come at a time when rail users are facing inflation-busting fare increases, cuts in services and chronic overcrowding.

The Conservatives said the Government appeared to have 'given up' on the railways, which are now controlled centrally from inside Transport Secretary Douglas Alexander's Whitehall office.

Dr Mitchell, who as the Department for Transport's director general of railways is the top rail civil servant, made his comments when he appeared before the House of Commons public accounts committee.

Although he was referring to London commuters, his remarks will resonate with passengers nationally.

South Norfolk MP Richard Bacon asked whether it was acceptable that people paying £4,000 or £5,000 per year for a season ticket should have to stand. Dr Mitchell replied: 'If you are travelling a relatively short distance, I do not think that it is unacceptable to expect to stand in the peak.'

Asked what he called a short distance, Dr Mitchell replied: 'Perhaps half an hour.'

He told the committee: 'The chances of people being able to travel in the commuter peak into London and be guaranteed a seat is not realistic. The cost of providing-sufficient capacity to enable everyone to get a seat would expand the railway budget way beyond anything we have here.'

Gerry Doherty, general secretary of the Transport Salaried Staffs' Association, said: 'Dr Mitchell is arrogant and out of touch if he thinks this is acceptable for commuters not to get a seat when they are paying £5,000 a year to commute into London.

'It is his job to provide more trains and longer trains so commuters do not have to endure cattle-truck like conditions. They are paying through the nose for a second-class service.

'The vast majority of commuters simply cannot afford to travel first class in comfort like senior civil servants and MPs.'

Tory transport spokesman Chris Grayling said: 'We need rapid action to deal with overcrowding - not acceptance that the situation is only going to deteriorate.

'Yet again, we have seen substantial increases in fares, but journeys are becoming more and more unpleasant as congestion worsens.

'The Government has so far failed to keep the promises they made in their ten-year plan about improving the rail network, and now this looks like they've given up entirely on even trying.'

The row came as commuters in the West Country announced that they are planning a 'fares strike' next week to protest at overcrowding on First Great Western Trains.

The protest follows the scrapping of services, a reduction in the number of carriages and fare increases.

From the beginning of this month season tickets and saver fares regulated by the Government rose by 4.3 per cent on average. Unregulated fares rose by an average of 4.7 per cent. But some tickets went up by more than 11 per cent.

A Department for Transport spokesman said: 'We are increasing capacity on Britain's busiest rail routes, and this will continue. Investment is at record levels.'

He said Dr Mitchell walked to work during the week and bought a standard rail ticket at weekends.

Comments:

Five thousand pounds? Cripes. I'd like to have the kind of salary that could afford that ticket! As it is, I'm about to be priced out of my job on a £1,600 season ticket - no pay rises and I'm not going to be able to afford to get to work soon! Not all commuters are earning large sums, you know - some of us do it for jobs that we love but that don't pay much.

- Suzanne, London

I hear echoes of Dr. Beeching, ripped up a very significant chunk of rail in the 1960's. He was in some respects far sighted since he could see the effect of the car. Then some idiot decided that taxing the car in the name of being Green.

To replace the amount of rail and reinstall that network would cost Trillions in Compulsory purchase compensation in the first place before even the first piece of track was laid, let alone the building of the stations.

The Government can't have it both ways: we are being told to use Public Transport in one breath, then in the next they are allowing the Rail Transport Providers to charge ridiculous prices. Most people commute to London because there is no work locally, not out of choice.

Finally will Great Eastern explain why a season to London Liverpool Street from Chelmsford is now £328.40 per month, whereas a monthly ticket to Colchester which, give or take 5 miles equidistant, is only £102.00. Perhaps Great Eastern would justify/explain the discrepency.

Sounds to me more to do with ripping off a captive market, who have no alternative- a

- Christopher Richards, Chelmsford United Kingdom

Dr Mitchell's comments suggest someone totally lacking any sense of the value of money or what is required of a rail service. The suffering of commuters from late trains, trains not running at all, disruption from over-running engineering works and over-crowding shows no sign of improvement. The only reason that rail travellers put up with this poor service is that they have no choice. The average commuter cannot afford £5,000 and are not interested in a first class service. They just want a consistently efficient rail service provided at a reasonable cost. Those involved in transport policy and managing rail services should stop making excuses - now widely regarded as ridiculous - and focus on the simple objective of delivering what customers need.

- Simon, London

See also:

Don't expect a seat for your £5,000, rail chief tells outraged commuters

The Times: January 18, 2007
Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent

# Commuters told to avoid peak travel
# Big fare increases are not ruled out

Rail commuters travelling at peak periods should expect to stand even if they have paid £5,000 for an annual season ticket, according to the head of railways at the Department for Transport.

Mike Mitchell was condemned by rail unions and passenger groups for saying that it was acceptable to stand for up to half an hour in peak periods. He said that it would be too expensive to provide seats for everyone and that commuters who did not want to stand should avoid the peak, which now extends from 6.30am to 10am on many lines.

The Government predicts that passenger numbers will increase by 30 per cent over the next decade, but it has no plans to increase significantly the number of trains on busy lines.

Giving evidence on January 8 to the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee, Dr Mitchell admitted that the railways were busier now than at any time since 1946, with more than 1.1 billion passengers carried last year. Dr Mitchell said: “If you are travelling a relatively short distance, I do not think that it is unacceptable to expect to stand in the peak.”

Asked by Richard Bacon, MP for Norfolk South, what he meant by a short distance, he said: “Perhaps half an hour.”

Mr Bacon then asked: “Standing for half an hour is acceptable even though you are paying your local train operating company £5,000 a year?” Dr Mitchell replied: “It has to be said that there are alternatives . . . if one travels off-peak.”

He added: “The cost of providing sufficient capacity to enable everyone to get a seat would expand the railway budget way beyond anything we have here.”

The DfT said that Dr Mitchell travelled to work either on foot or in standard class.

Tom Harris, the Rail Minister, supported Dr Mitchell yesterday. He said: “It’s not realistic that passengers get a seat for every journey.” He said that trains might be lengthened “in the long term”, but refused to give any date, and would not rule out further above-inflation fare increases.

Gerry Doherty, of the Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association, said: “Dr Mitchell is arrogant and out of touch if he thinks it is acceptable for commuters not to get a seat when they are paying £5,000 a year to commute into London.

“It is his job to provide more trains and longer trains so commuters do not have to endure cattle-truck-like conditions to get to work. They are paying through the nose for a second-class service. The Department for Transport should be working towards a first-class service for everyone.”

Passenger Focus, the national watchdog, said: “It is not acceptable for passengers to pay vast amounts of money only to have to stand. More capacity must be provided.”

First Great Western, which operates between London and the West Country, has announced a £63 million refurbishment of its 125mph fleet, including leather seats in first class and power sockets at every seat.

The company said that it was creating an extra 8,000 seats a day on its services but admitted that most of the increase would come from squeezing more seats on to existing trains. The number of tables will be reduced by more than half and passengers will have less legroom.

First Great Western backed down yesterday in a dispute about overcrowding in the Bristol and Bath area, where passengers had planned to refuse to pay on Monday.

The company has agreed to bring six to eight carriages out of storage. However, it said that they would operate for a limited period.